The reason there are currently only 22 bikes on the MotoGP grid, rather than the 24 Dorna has always said is the number they want, is simple. They have been keeping two slots open on the grid for another manufacturer ever since Suzuki pulled out of the series at the end of the 2022 season.
The phrase "another manufacturer" is a euphemism. The other manufacturer in question is BMW. Dorna have been trying to persuade BMW to enter MotoGP for decades. They came close shortly after the start of the four-stroke MotoGP era, with BMW building and testing a 990cc triple. But ever since then, BMW have been content to be an official partner, with German manufacturer supplying safety vehicles, sponsoring the BMW M Award for the best qualifier, and providing extensive sponsorship of each event.
Dorna took another shot at persuading BMW shortly after Suzuki pulled out at the end of 2022. Reportedly, BMW were offered Suzuki's entire MotoGP program (bikes, trucks, equipment) for free, if they agreed to enter MotoGP. BMW declined again.
Dropping a hint?
Rumors of a BMW entry into MotoGP persist. Speculation was reignited on the basis of comments by new BMW Motorrad CEO Markus Flasch in an interview with preeminent German magazine Motorrad. In a long interview about the current state of the Bavarian manufacturer, and the importance of the new flagship R1300GS launched earlier this year, Flasch was asked about MotoGP.
Flasch gave a positive but relatively noncommittal response. "As head of BMW M, I have attended plenty of races, I know the responsibilities, and we are a brand that is present there. But that we would have to have good reasons for it [racing in MotoGP] is obvious, and so we are examining it closely. I wouldn't rule it out," he told Motorrad. But that was enough to launch a thousand stories.
Now, respected veteran Mat Oxley has a story that adds more fuel to the BMW-to-MotoGP fire. Oxley reports that BMW is said to be buying all of Suzuki's data from the final years of its MotoGP project for a rumored €18 million. That is huge news, and a fascinating development, given just how important data is in motorcycle development now.
Does this mean that BMW are working on a MotoGP entry, especially with the technical rules change from 2027? That is certainly a tempting conclusion. But Oxley's reporting includes another important detail. He made some discrete inquiries among senior engineering staff in the MotoGP paddock at Silverstone, and not had been contacted by BMW, Oxley writes.
On the one hand, data is the absolute cornerstone of MotoGP bike development. One of the main reasons Ducati is currently dominating in the class is because for the past few years, Ducati have had eight bikes on the grid, including four or five factory-spec bikes, plus top-level riders capable of battling at the front. "Data is everything to an engineer," Ducati Corse boss Gigi Dall'Igna told me a couple of years ago when I interviewed him about this.
But data alone is not enough. There has been a recent spate of engineer poaching, as factories have attempted to tempt senior technical staff away from rival manufacturers and into their own racing departments. The data can tell you what is happening, but experienced engineers understand why it is happening, and what happens when you try to change that.
So are BMW considering a MotoGP entry, as the acquisition of Suzuki's MotoGP data suggests? Or are they not interested in racing, as the lack of interest in hiring top engineers from other factories would seem to imply? Getting their hands on Suzuki's MotoGP data would be a huge development shortcut for BMW to build a competitive MotoGP machine. But they will need the experience of engineers to take that data and turn it into something capable of competing with the KTMs, the Aprilias, the Ducatis.
The money pit
Mat Oxley's article is fascinating and insightful, as you would expect. But I remain unconvinced that BMW are serious about actually entering MotoGP. By any objective standard, BMW belong in MotoGP and should already be active in the class. But the obstacles to an actual entry are massive. There is not much to gain, and an awful lot to lose.
Let's start with the cost of being competitive in MotoGP. In 2016, at the public launch of their MotoGP project at the Red Bull Ring, KTM (or rather, Pierer Mobility Group) boss Stefan Pierer told us KTM were entering with a five-year plan to win a world title. They have been successful in every discipline they have ever entered, he pointed out, and KTM and the PMG were determined to do whatever it took to succeed in MotoGP.
Though Pierer did not give any numbers at the time, it was public knowledge that they had initially set aside €50 million a year to invest in the project and try to become successful. That total has now risen to around €70 million a year.
Have KTM succeeded in their objectives? That is not as simple to answer as you might hope. The Austrian manufacturer has 7 grand prix victories and 2 sprint wins to their name, with Brad Binder's fourth place in the 2023 championship their best placing in the riders title to date. It has been a very strong performance. The question is, is it what KTM had been hoping for? And do they feel they are getting the return on investment they hoped for.
The amount KTM is spending is not exorbitant. It is roughly on a par with what the Japanese factories spend, and a bit more than the other European manufacturers invest. If you are looking for an idea of what BMW would have to spend to be competitive, somewhere between €50-70 million is a pretty good starting place.
Could BMW afford it? The motorcycle division of BMW reported earnings before interest and tax of €259 million for 2023, just inside their target EBIT margin of 8-10%. If BMW Motorrad were to spend €70 million a year on MotoGP, their EBIT margin would drop from 8.1% to around 5.9%. (This is a gross simplification, of course, but useful as back of the envelope guidance.) They could afford it, but BMW's management board would have to be convinced that the investment was worth it.
How, then, do Ducati, Aprilia, and KTM afford that level of investment? Precisely because their management boards want to spend that money in MotoGP. And when I say management boards, I mean CEO, and in the case of KTM's Stefan Pierer, major stakeholder in the company. Ducati CEO Claudio Domenicali is an accomplished rider and regularly rides a Panigale and even the Desmosedici on track. Stefan Pierer has decided he wants to be in MotoGP, so they are in MotoGP. Aprilia went into MotoGP because the Piaggio CEO and major stakeholder, the late Roberto Colaninno, was personally committed to racing in the premier class. The people who effectively owned the companies wanted to go racing in MotoGP.
Persuasion
Do BMW want to go racing in MotoGP? BMW Motorrad CEO Markus Flasch has made positive noises, but Flasch does not have sole say in this. The BMW Motorrad CEO is not part of the Board of Management of BMW AG, the parent company. BMW's motorcycles division provides 2% of BMW AG's turnover, and 1.5% of the group's earnings.
For an investment of scale involved in MotoGP, Flasch would have to go to the Board of Management and persuade them the return would justify the cost. And he would have to persuade them to sustain that level of investment for a period of 5-10 years. We do not know either way how the Board of Management of BMW AG would view such an investment. But it would require persuasion, and not just be accepted without question.
The biggest part of persuading the board to race in MotoGP is convincing them that the return on investment is large enough. At the moment, BMW are racing in WorldSBK, a series with much less involvement but the budget for which is a fraction of a potential MotoGP project.
But BMW are already heavily involved in MotoGP, and have been for a quarter of a century. They have been the supplier of safety cars and emergency vehicles since 1999, as well as safety bikes and bikes for the media laps, such as the laps done by Simon Crafar for the MotoGP YouTube channel.
The German car manufacturer also sponsors the BMW M Award, given to the best qualifier over the season. This, too, goes back long way, to the shootout at the Jerez preseason test in the early years of the century, where the winner was given a BMW M car. BMW also has advertising hoardings around the track and a VIP program inside the MotoGP paddock.
BMW get a great deal of exposure from their involvement in MotoGP, at a fraction of the cost of racing in the series. The question facing Markus Flasch and the rest of BMW management is whether they believe the return from racing will be worth the additional money spent. And what it means for BMW's current level of involvement.
Asking why?
From the outside - the perspective of a naïve journalist with precisely zero experience of running a large multinational corporation - the added value of racing in MotoGP is limited. With their current involvement, BMW get a ton of exposure with none of the brand risk of building a MotoGP bike that ends up circulating at the back of the field.
That doesn't mean BMW won't end up racing in MotoGP. Companies have their own reasons and calculations for taking part in racing, many of which appear impenetrable from the outside.
If BMW are not intending to go racing in MotoGP, why would they spend a rumored €18 million on acquiring the data from Suzuki's MotoGP project? Data is one of the reasons manufacturers go racing. There is so much to be learned about vehicle dynamics from racing in the extreme environment that is MotoGP which can be applied in all sorts of areas of vehicle development, in both motorcycle and automotive applications. The data has a value of its own.
Never say never
There is another possibility, as Mat Oxley points out. It could well be part of a feasibility study to assess whether to start up a MotoGP project. Studying the data from Suzuki would give BMW a clear insight into what it takes to compete in MotoGP, and the effort involved. It would also give them an idea of the benefits to be gained from racing in the premier class. That would then feed into a decision on whether to proceed, and how.
So BMW acquiring Suzuki's data from MotoGP may not necessarily be a sign of their intention to go racing in MotoGP. But there is a good chance that they are at the stage before that, of weighing up the pros and cons, assessing the scale of such a project, and trying to estimate the return from spending that much money.
Taking all of this together, you get somewhere close to an answer for the question, are BMW going to enter MotoGP? Maybe. Possibly? To quote BMW Motorrad CEO Markus Flasch, "I wouldn't rule it out."
One thing we can probably rule out on the basis of this sale, however, is what it means for Suzuki's view of MotoGP. If the Japanese factory is selling the data it acquired in its final years of MotoGP, then it shows that they don't believe they will be needing that data in the short or medium term. The chances of Suzuki returning to the premier class within the next decade or so are pretty much zero. They are probably out of MotoGP for a generation. And that is a shame.
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Comments
Like you, David ...
... I can't see the return being commensurate with the costs, given the company's current involvement. Always fun to speculate, though!
SBK
I think the data from that far back has more relevance in the SBK class than in today's MotoGP class. It is how to get good traction and sweet handling with an inline 4 cylinder with limited aerodynamic aids.
In reply to SBK by Vannik
Five Stars
My thoughts exactly Vannick.
BMW takes the Suzuki data and will try to develope the M1000RRRRR towards what the Suzuki was two years ago.
A sweet handling inline four! With an awesome rider. Or probably two.
So Dorna don't want Husqvarna or MV Agusta in MotoGP?
In reply to SBK by Vannik
I agree
That was my first thought as well. Using the data to keep their SBK growth going.
Will BMW even consider it without a satellite team as well?
Ducati and Yamaha are proof that a two rider team will not permit sufficiently rapid technical progress when competing with a manufacturer with access to more grid slots. Would the availability of only two new grid slots not act as a disincentive to BMW? Or does Dorna think that BMW would need to convince an existing satellite team (Gresini, VR46?) to switch to BMW? The idea that each manufacturer has one factory team and one satellite would likely have an effect on relative competitiveness, but the cost...
In reply to Will BMW even consider it without a satellite team as well? by johnmh
Yet Suzuki proved the…
Yet Suzuki proved the opposite, only ever two bikes. Aprilia have only enjoyed having four bikes on the grid sinces last season but 2022 was their best season. KTM have had four bikes since 2019 after Tech3 left Yamaha but it doesn't appear to have made much difference. Honda have had four bikes since the year dot and they would win this years Moto2 championship...maybe. Ducati had four bikes, then six bikes and still couldn't win until 2022. I think Ducati's 'big data' is of most use to them on a weekend, for that weekend.
I think the new concessions system also has to be taken into account.
In reply to Yet Suzuki proved the… by WaveyD1974
Aprilia moving up to the…
Aprilia moving up to the front of the grid is entirely down to concessions which they lost but three years ago. They have been level for two seasons but this year has seen them fade a little. The concessions is what got them there -they couldn't have done it any other way.
Apical
So Dorna don't want Husqvarna or MV Agusta in MotoGP?
KTM don't want Husqvarna, Husaberg or Gas-Gas in MotoGP! However, never say never to MV I say. Their collaboration with CFMoto is a binding agreement so not exactly 'badge engineering'.
Mat Oxley wrote a book 3-4 years ago about the Ernst Degner incident named "Buying Speed". What an ironic title! In it, a German gives all his secrets to the Japanese Suzuki team. At least Suzuki get €18M back; seems like the better deal!
In reply to Aprilia moving up to the… by Taffmeister
"Stealing" Speed
Published in 2010, unobtainable now. Shame, it's a very good read.
In reply to "Stealing" Speed by larryt4114
It certainly is..
I’ve got it, but try to find the superb documentary that was, I think, on Sky in the U.K. called ‘’Missile from the East’. Superbly produced, interviews with any surviving protagonists, interspersed with acted scenes. I saw it about three years ago and was struck by the depth and sheer quality of it.
In reply to It certainly is.. by funsize
Movie Data
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12835186/
The story of East German motorcycle racer Ernst Degner, who, at the height of the Cold War and on the cusp of achieving his life ambition to win the world championship, fled East Germany with his family in a heart-stopping escape.
I've just sourced a copy, added to my watchlist. Thanks!
In reply to Movie Data by WW
It's a copy. The story of…
It's a copy. The story of the defection by Degner was told far more simply in a book about MZ racing by a Jan Leek. It's shorter and also the real loser is the head engineer; Walter Kaaden. Very sad for him, I was close to tears thinking of the hell his family went through.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mz-Racers-Birth-Modern-Two-Stroke/dp/1872982018
In reply to It certainly is.. by funsize
Awesome documentary. Thank…
Awesome documentary. Thank you.
In reply to Awesome documentary. Thank… by spongedaddy
Good tip! "One Fast Move?"
Surprised I've missed this! Thank you, looking fwd.
Is this related to getting 2 stroke tech from (MZ?) to the West?
Also, TODAY on (yuck) Prime Video "One Fast Move" released, Triumph Moto2/Supersport club racing movie. Daytona 200 winner on the same bike Brandon Paasche does the racing riding for the protagonist. A 2nd well known racer I can't recall does so for the antagonist. They took actual USA club racers and had them bring their usual paddock set up to mimic a real race weekend. Haven't seen it yet but may right NOW. Forgive me if it sucks. Fingers crossed. "Young promising street rider meets old racer mentor to get racing" drama. Plus bike porn. I'm excited about what bike it centers on and will stare at that eye candy!
I hear BMW moto racing brass wanting to go to MotoGP. But that is a big step from BMW brass agreeing! Loving that they are getting their day in the Sun in WSBK via TurkRossi extraordinaire. That is wonderful. Would it be great to get another manu here? Of course! Could BMW do well in a tech and aero era? I think so! Do they have a rich racing heritage? Yes! Do I think the chances of them coming to join MotoGP for 2027 are significant? No. Wee-tiny barely almost nil. Is that particularly well informed? Also no, yet...no.
Is anyone strongly believing otherwise?
Confession, I didn't think the 2024 Ducati GP bike was going to be so much better that the '23, seeing Marc overriding it to equal footing with Martin and Pecco by Summer break. I was also SURE I read Quarty as leaving Yamaha. I think last Fri we started a multi national recession finally.
Might be wrong!
;)
In reply to Good tip! "One Fast Move?" by Motoshrink
Yes, Mat Oxley's "Stealing…
Yes, Mat Oxley's "Stealing Speed" and as well "Missile from the east" are the story of getting german nazi-rocketscience to Japan. An engineer by the name of Walter Kaaden - who was literally a rocket scientist - used his knowledge of shock- and/or pressurewaves to maximize the performance of the famed MZ twostrokers. Ernst Degner one of the MZ riders at the time, defected and handed it over to Suzuki and some say with that knowledge the japanese motorcycle industry created a worldwide empire. Some glimpses of useless information, the two sharp right handers before the underpass in Suzuka are named after Degner, albeit his desire for freedom he was a tragic figure and died way to early. Walter Kaaden the engineering genius lived a quiet life afterwards and died years after east german system of communism collapsed. Suzuki's square-four 500ccm RG engine had the DNA of the MZ design.
In reply to Aprilia moving up to the… by Taffmeister
Concessions helping…
Concessions helping development ? Absolutely. The new concessions system being of greater help than the old ? I think so. Only having two bikes might even be an advantage in making full use of the new concessions. It would make sense if the error was large, which it's likely to be with a new entry.
In reply to Aprilia moving up to the… by Taffmeister
Hi Taffmeister. Mat’s book…
Hi Taffmeister. Mat’s book is called ‘Stealing Speed’. When Degner defected from East Germany he took the MZ racing engine secrets with him to Suzuki. At least BMW are buying the data, although it would be ironic if the Suzuki confidential MotoGP data was stolen and smuggled back to Germany!
In reply to Hi Taffmeister. Mat’s book… by ColinW
It's Been Suggested
https://motomatters.com/comment/104627#comment-104627
Risk or Reward.
I've got motorcycling mates who think BMW already race in motoGP. They ride regularly, they have at least one (or several) motorcycles, and they happily spend lots of money on their motorcycling based obsession. A couple of them even have BMWs. Unlike me (us?) they aren't obsessed with MotoGP, WSBK etc. They are life long riders who live for their motocycling and at best they have a passing interest in racing, and because of BMW's marketing profile they assume or think that BMW is racing MotoGP. I don't know if that is typical, however if it is then there's potentially more downside than upside if BMW found itself at the rear of the grid.
Maybe BMW's Branding is exactly where it wants it to be because the guys with BMWs didn't buy them for outright performance. They were drawn to BMW for the (perceived, actual or otherwise) quality and great rideability etc. The guys who bought on performance and aesthetics have Ducati's, an MV, or tricked up R1's :)
In reply to Risk or Reward. by Morgs
MotoGP and F1 are about…
MotoGP and F1 are about selling merch, not vehicles...
Maybe They're Thinking 1-2+ Decades Out
Anecdotal, I Admit:
In reply to Maybe They're Thinking 1-2+ Decades Out by isoia
Counterpoint
I do and follow the track day scene, and the S1000xx is pretty popular there. S1000xx owners tend to love them (though the latest gen has had some big engine problems)
The bikes are so good I'm kind of bummed they don't have a legit middle weight sportbike. I'd definitely consider an SxxxRR, especially if it had a unique engine config.
That said, if BMW Motorrad has 50-70M a year to spend, I do feel like it would be better spent expanding their sport bike lineup and basking in the glory of WSBK than losing big in MotoGP.
It's encouraging that BMW…
It's encouraging that BMW buys Suzuki's data, but as you've said, this means that Suzuki won't return to MotoGP anytime soon, and that is a shame...
Surprising how BMW management policy can affect racing plans
The recent history of BMW Motorrad leadership shows how hard it can be to get support for new ventures with risky or marginal returns. BMW corporate has long had a policy of requiring major division heads to step down or retire outright at age 60. Flasch's predecessor, Markus Schramm left Motorrad after 5 years (2018-2023) - even at the height of market success leading Motorrad. Before him, Stephan Schaller led for 6 years (2012-2018). In Flasch's favor is his relative youth — mid-40s I believe. Even so, BMW, like many companies, like to keep a fresh face on top, so it's hard to lead a major effort by force of will - chances are they'll move or be moved on. Flasch subtly refers to this in a Speedweek interview with Ivo Schützbach about the MotoGP effort:
I would read that first sentence as ""Every decision of this size [must be] widely supported [by the whole Management Board] in a company like BMW"
I'd love to see BMW in MotoGP, but I interpret this as long odds on a MotoGP effort.
Why hasn't Honda bought the Suzuki IP?
If anyone was going to buy the Suzuki IP - the smart move would be for Honda to do it.
Those 22' bikes were competitive as hell.
Must be the pride, but gd that is a lot of pride.
What benefit does Ducati get data-wise from their programs?
It looks kind of like BMW think its worth €18 million, but Ducati knows the answer already.
David, can you ask Dal'igna what direction the net-transfer of data is between MotoGP and WSBK?
On his and Mat's podcast, Peter Bom has mentioned in passing how the superbike electronics are more sophisticated than what MotoGP is able to run right now.
Does that mean that Ducati can test novel vehicle dymanic strategies in WSBK and then move them to MotoGP? Or do the constraints of MotoGP help engineers get creative in ways that help the WSBK team?
Or is it apples and oranges, and there's zero transfer between WSBK and MotoGP at Ducati?
In reply to What benefit does Ducati get data-wise from their programs? by nickridiculous
Theres def transfer
I dont know about transfer up from WSBK to MotoGP, but between the Panigale sprouting wins, and if my memory serves me correctly, either Ducati or KTM claiming their MotoGP aero research helped reduce buffering on their adventure bikes, there's a huge trickle down effect.
Very comprehensive review of…
Very comprehensive review of the issue, thank you.
I think you covered everything except one: ego. It’s hard to make a brand or business case for the extra investment in addition to their existing commitments in MotoGP, WSBK & F1, just as you’ve outlined. The only factor that I think that would make the BMW management board go for it is the desire to compete with, or at least match, Audi with their investment in Ducati and the world title successes that have resulted. The German auto industry owning elite is a very small group of interlinked families, as we know, and turning up at an event flashing some Ducati branding no doubt puts noses out of out joint in exactly the way intended. And that for these folk (to borrow an ad phrase) is priceless. 😏