Skip to main content
Home

MotoMatters.com | Kropotkin Thinks

... that new tires might be a bigger deal than new engines

User Menu

  • Log in

Tools

  • Home
  • Subscriber Content
  • Round Ups
  • Features
    • Analysis
    • Interviews
    • Opinion
    • David Emmett's Blog
  • Photos
  • More
    • Search
    • Riders & Teams
    • Calendars
      • 2025 Provisional MotoGP Calendar
      • 2025 Provisional WorldSBK Calendar
    • Championship Standings
      • MotoGP Standings
      • Moto2 Standings
      • Moto3 Standings
      • MotoE Standings
      • WorldSBK Standings
      • WorldSSP Standings
    • Race Results
      • MotoGP Race Results
      • Moto2 Race Results
      • Moto3 Race Results
      • MotoE Race Results
      • WorldSBK Race Results
      • WorldSSP Race Results
    • News
      • MotoGP News
      • WorldSBK News
  • Subscribe!
    • More info about subscribing
  • Patreon
  • Forums
  • Contact

Breadcrumb

  • Home
  • Analysis and Background

Some autorenewing subscriptions have failed to automatically renew. If you find you can't read subscriber articles, or think this applies to you please read this.


Jerez MotoGP Test Round Up: A Lot Of Work, But How Much Progress?

By David Emmett | Mon, 29/Apr/2024 - 22:24

Testing after a race is always tricky affair. There is a weekend's worth of Michelin rubber on the track, and then another 24 riders spend all day laying down yet more rubber - a grand total of 1706 between all of them, for a total distance of 7545.638 kilometers. By the end of the day, the conditions are just not going to get much better.

That means you have to treat the times with a touch of caution, and as a MotoGP rider and team, be careful how you interpret what you are feeling. "We know that every time the tests are a bit unrealistic for the grip level," fastest rider Fabio Di Giannantonio told us at the end of the day at Jerez. "For this reason, the focus was to understand what a part does, let's say. Just about the comments, not about the lap time or whatever. Just to understand the characteristic of that part and whether to use it or not at the next few rounds."

Bearing all that in mind, there is not a great deal you can read into the times. There were seven Ducatis in the top ten, with Di Giannantonio ending the day fastest, Franco Morbidelli, Pecco Bagnaia, and Marc Marquez from third to fifth, and Alex Marquez, Enea Bastianini, and Jorge Martin from eighth to tenth. Maverick Viñales was second quickest on the Aprilia RS-GP, while teammate Aleix Espargaro was seventh. And Brad Binder was sixth quickest on the Red Bull KTM, though admittedly, Pedro Acosta was eleventh with the exact same time as Jorge Martin.

Who was working on what? The real interest was in the garages of the Japanese factories. In something of a reversal of fortunes (see also their results), Honda and Yamaha riders are more open about what they have been testing than the Ducati and Aprilia riders. Post-test debriefs for factory Aprilia riders now sound suspiciously like this 1962 BBC radio interview with Dr Hastings Banda, who would become president of Malawi.

Yamaha

There was also a lot happening visually in the Yamaha and Honda garages. Which turned out to the detriment of the Yamaha riders. Yamaha's lead aerodynamicist - poached from Ducati - brought a strikingly different fairing to the Jerez MotoGP test. That raised the hopes of both Fabio Quartararo and Alex Rins, leaving them all the more disappointed when the new aero didn't make all that much difference.

"A different feeling," was how Quartararo summed it up. "Not worse, not better for me at the moment. But sometimes there is in acceleration, some things that that I cannot feel, but on the data you can see. But on my first feeling it was neutral, neutral feeling."

Alex Rins spent a lot more time with the new fairing, and was slightly more positive. "I did many laps on the new fairing, I did many comparisons, many back to backs and honestly I was expecting more difference, more performance. I mean, when you look at the bike with this new fairing, it looks spectacular."

There was a difference, he insisted, but not as much as the looks had led him to expect. "The numbers on the wind tunnel are so different, very different. But on track, I was expecting a little bit more. I was able to ride in a better way with this new fairing, but it was only tenths. One tenth, one tenth and a half. But it's a step forward that we did compared to the base setup."

Yamaha also had a new chassis, which was supposed to help with turning. Quartararo was pleased that he could feel a much bigger difference than he usually felt when he tested a new frame, but the difference in feeling and performance was small. Quartararo could feel a small improvement on corner entry, but Alex Rins felt the difference was negligible.

Yamaha also worked on electronics, to try to smooth the engine out - the aggressive character of the engine is the biggest problem for Yamaha - and there was progress. Work went on traction control and engine braking to make the bike smoother. "The others are smoother!" Rins insisted when I said the bike sounded smooth.

Honda

HRC also had something striking to test, though it was a bike we had seen before in the garage of wildcard and Honda test rider Stefan Bradl all weekend. A bike with a completely new aero package, with the fairing extending much further back, a totally different wing package, different side pods, downwash ducts, tail wing, and a completely new frame.

On the Monday, Takaaki Nakagami and Johann Zarco both got to test the new bike, Repsol Honda riders Joan Mir and Luca Marini having previously tried the bike at a test in Barcelona. The good news was that all four Honda riders agreed on their feedback about the bike. The bad news was that it made no difference, and did nothing to fix the issues which are currently plaguing the Honda RC213V.

The slightly better news, however, is that Honda did bring something else that helped. Though Honda riders remained vague, they admitted that it was "a different concept" that involved engine parts. "Well, we are testing different stuff on the engine…not an engine but different things to understand the direction," Joan Mir admitted when pressed.

What the modified engine did was helped the bike turn, one of the biggest weaknesses of the current iteration of the RC213V. "We are trying to find the turning that we are missing," Mir said. "That is the weakest point tat we have, and with that thing we can understand that we have more turning. It’s true that we lose a lot in other areas but there is a lot of margin to improve and that gives us a direction."

Both Johann Zarco and Takaaki Nakagami agreed with Mir's assessment. The revised engine helped the Honda turn, which is the biggest issue the bike has. Nakagami was pleased with the improvement through the fast corners, places like Turn 11 and 12, as well as Turn 7. Those had always been his strong point, he said, and with the current generation of the Honda, that strong point had disappeared.

What could Honda have changed on the engine to help the bike turn? The elements of engine design which affect turning are crank rotation direction, crankshaft weight (which can be modified by the use of external flywheels), and the location of the crankshaft in relation to the bike's center of mass and its geometry. MotoGP bikes have had engines which run backwards for donkey's years, which leaves either crankshaft weight or geometry. Or both. Take your pick.

KTM

The Austrian factory had a new aero package to test, which will go into the development cycle to produce something usable in the second half of the season. It will likely be rolled out again at the Mugello test in a month's time for a second attempt.

The bottom half of that new fairing flew off of one of the bikes during testing. This highlights one of the problems with the current generation of aerodynamics packages. Fairings are becoming so complex that designers are struggling to find the ideal place to put the Dzus fasteners which hold the fairing in place. That is making it easier and easier for mechanics to make a mistake tightening those fasteners, and creating an issue like Jerez.

You might say that it is the responsibility of mechanics to make sure that the bike is perfect every time it rolls out of the garage. Anyone who has watched a MotoGP team work on a bike is astounded by the accuracy, speed, and coordination with which they take bikes apart and put them together again. Mistakes can always happen, but the objective of a bike designer and industrial engineer is to foresee such problems, and try to design the bike in such a way as to minimize the possibility of problems arising.

For the rest, Brad Binder has been working on getting confidence in the front end, but for both Binder and Jack Miller, their main issue has been with a vibration in the rear wheel. Standing track side, that vibration is visible, the rear of the bike jumping and pumping on the exit of fast corners. It is the KTMs which seem to suffer it worst, with other factories having only a little, or in some cases not at all.

Ironically, the additional grip made it harder to try to fix the chatter, as that vibration was proving much harder to produce. Normally, more grip means more chatter, but this particular form of vibration seems to get worse as the grip drops. "Looks like that the less grip we have, the more vibration we have," Ducati's Pecco Bagnaia said. "I think Barcelona is a track where we can have some issues with vibration."

Ducati

Ducati didn't have anything earth-shattering to test. In part because Pecco Bagnaia had tested it already during the race weekend, in a bid to get his 2024 season back on track. "We have to say that most of the things we had to test today, we tested already on Friday. So today was just a day to reanalyze everything and retest. And everything we tried was working well," Bagnaia said. So well that he won a scintillating race the day before.

There were small things to test for all of the Ducati riders, but for the most part, they were focusing on setup and riding style. For Franco Morbidelli, it was a chance to do a lot of laps - 82, the fourth highest total behind Johann Zarco, Fabio Quartararo, and Takaaki Nakagami - and start to catch up with the testing he missed during the preseason, after crashing a Ducati Panigale at Portimão and suffering a concussion.

For Marc Marquez, it was also a chance to start to work on the setup of the bike. "At the Malaysia and Qatar tests I was still adapting my riding style to the bike, and I had some doubts about some comments, and I said to them, ‘maybe yes, maybe no’. But today we made a big step in that way, super precise in the comments and this helps the technicians to know better my riding style," the Gresini Ducati rider said.

This allowed him to take the next step forward. "So then was the time to say to them, ‘now it's time to give me with the setup, not with new things, but with the setup of the bike, my riding style’. Help me in my weak points and try to not go on the strong points only. Also to try to help me in the weak points."

Aprilia

In the factory Aprilia team, both Maverick Viñales and Aleix Espargaro were working on ergonomics, a time-consuming process but one which can reap major benefits. Both riders were looking to improve their position on the bike to help with braking. It is ironic that factories spend millions of euros on aerodynamics, electronics, finite element analysis and computer simulations, but the biggest factor affecting bike performance remains the riders and their body position. The ability to move the 65 to 90 kg a rider in full protective gear weighs around a massive amount has an outsized effect on the bike's behavior. Much to the chagrin of bike designers.

Aprilia was also looking for improvements with their starts, something Maverick Viñales has consistently asked for. That wasn't always possible, MotoGP project lead Romano Albesiano admitted. "What the riders are asking is actually… to be better than the others! So when the qualifying is not super good, like it was here, to have the opportunity to recover."

That was unrealistic, given the current level of MotoGP, Albesiano insisted. "But, you know, everybody's pushing a lot. So even if we keep improving, we are doing unbelievable numbers in terms of starting time, but everybody's doing unbelievable job."

Raul Fernandez also got a chance to ride the 2024 Aprilia RS-GP - the 2023 engine is almost identical to the 2024 engine, so the new bike consists mostly of aero package, and some chassis elements - and came away eager to make the switch, but aware of the limitations making a switch would bring. "I think the bike has a little bit more potential, but it's not easy bike, I can tell you. We need time to know the bike, we need time to see how is the performance on the bike," the Trackhouse Aprilia rider said.

Fernandez will have to wait a few races before he is finally able to make the switch. Until then, he will have to make do.

Full results of the test can be found on this page.


If you enjoyed this article, please consider supporting MotoMatters.com. You can help by either taking out a subscription, supporting us on Patreon, by making a donation, or contributing via our GoFundMe page. You can find out more about subscribing to MotoMatters.com here.

0
2024
MotoGP
Jerez, Spain
Aprilia
Ducati
Honda
KTM
Yamaha
David Emmett
  • Log in or register to post comments
↑Back to top

Comments

Krop remains upbeat about Honda

CTK
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

The good news was that all four Honda riders agreed on their feedback about the bike. The bad news was that it made no difference, and did nothing to fix the issues which are currently plaguing the Honda RC213V.

Exactly the kind of comedic gut punches I come here for. Thanks for the belly laugh

  • Log in or register to post comments

Honda's turn

haiiro99
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

I wonder if they fitted a set of split throttle bodies from the new fireblade to the RC213V*

Another thing I've been mulling over re: aero; I wonder if the Japanese factory riders can't feel a difference because they're still riding in the Japanese bike style.
Marc's recent comments, including the behind the scenes chat with Pecco on MotoGP social media, implies that, yes you can ride fast, but quite a distinct style is needed to unlock the real speed of the Ducati and by extension the Ducati aero paradigm.
An adjacent thought is a 0 or minus net subjective difference of putting high downforce/ intelligent download aero on underpowered (where real power is needed in cornering) or unmanageable (lack of power delivery control) engines which again negates their on track effectivity.

*yes I understand the fireblade's an I4, and that the GP bike would've already had this, but I said it for comedic effect...

  • Log in or register to post comments

Testing and the outsized effects of a rider's body position

Merlin
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Such a great observation David:

It is ironic that factories spend millions of euros on aerodynamics, electronics, finite element analysis and computer simulations, but the biggest factor affecting bike performance remains the riders and their body position. The ability to move the 65 to 90 kg a rider in full protective gear weighs around a massive amount has an outsized effect on the bike's behavior. 

Some riders seem able to ride around a bike's shortcomings (Casey Stoner is often cited as an example). Other riders seem wholly dependent on the bike being crafted to precisely fit their riding style (I recall observations about Jorge Lorenzo). I wonder how much teams invests in analyzing rider physics. Are there even tools for quantitative measurement of rider/machine interactions? Aleix Espargaro's comment is a bit of a gut check (Speedweek):

"We often only change millimeters, drive ourselves crazy - go a millimeter higher or lower - but at the end of the day the body is the largest part of the package, which also makes a big difference,"

Anyone have insights as to the state of the art? Technology? Best practices? Are riders even open to potential changes? (I imagine some are and some are not).

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Testing and the outsized effects of a rider's body position by Merlin

I think it's quite common to…

WaveyD1974
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

I think it's quite common to hear riders talking of changing their postures on the bike. Lots of talk about how position effects aero performance in turns. A rider's mass and shape being central to bike performance is as old as bikes. 

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to I think it's quite common to… by WaveyD1974

Mutter

Motoshrink
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Wind tunnel tests, rider aboard. Advantage to Red Bull support who has their own. Ducati did more than the others a few yrs back, likely still do. 

There is video and commentary out there. Tuck your elbows in. Chin into that wee divot atop the tank. Then POP up for braking, hang that inside body flap open to turn...now including de-activating/disrupting the aero on the inside of the bike.

Ducati's video w the smoke moving all around it is educational and entertaining. Been posted here more than once.

Capirossi has a fun candid interview w racing footage way back in beloved "Faster" comparing him to his team mate. "His a-way may be better on the straights...besides, I am big!"

Well trodden territory indeedy. Reminded of a fun and intriguing consideration - it is most striking what goes on subjectively re sense of speed and general consciousness after trancending the approx 170mph/275km per hr threshold. If you know, you know. Discrete peripheral vision, which gives sense of speed, smears to a water color. You can still see the tunnel of what is coming at you out there though. "Jump to hyperspace" or "warp speed, engage" time. Everything feels SLOW and more ethereal "up there," and you get to focus on nuance like are your elbows in. Then on the brakes it all comes jumping back into your awareness the speed! 165mph feels busier and faster than heavenly 175mph+. Which was prepped for thoughtfully. And damn seductive! Right? Good drug.

;)


I'm setting up gear for the E-moto and singletrack riding. Funny mix, a trials 3/4 helmet shipped from Germany w a flip down eye visor. Motocross chest protector, boots, elbow armor. Leftover adventure bike pants. The old mountain biking hydration backpack w tools in it.

The bike too - aluminium "bark buster" hand guards, heftier tires, gearing change, CRF450 footpegs, a few rather esoteric upgrades to weak points.

It all feels both "brand new" as well as "back to my roots." So damn cool! Feel a lost and missed good thing is back. The future is here?

Favorites = E Ride Pro SS, Talaria Sting R MX4, modified Sur Ron Light Bee

v Raffles, thanks friend! Putting that into the memory.

"Marketing consultant" compensation makes sense, eh MotoE Ducati project? I'd love to come ride this next Gen of MotoE. Better yet, can we please support a KTM Super Hooligans rider that has been taking the business to the rulebook darling "not gfgf" Indian bikes? Andi DiBrino. Please get back to full fitness mate! 

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Mutter by Motoshrink

tools

raffles
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Careful with the tools carried on the body shrink, a mate broke his back doing that 

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to tools by raffles

Good advice

larryt4114
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Friend of mine punched hell out of his kidney with a camera once, doing that. 

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Good advice by larryt4114

Hey Larry, might one also…

Motoshrink
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Hey Larry, might one also suggest that complintarily as such -- that one ought to shoot their shot from a sufficiently solid threshold?

Meaning, care to join me moving out into what The Marc just referred to as "my 2nd life" couldn't relate to ALL of us? Like, how am EYE to remake myself here and now as I am, with this life as it is?

Ever has it been thus. If Jerez 2024 can be THIS great, what the hell are we IN FOR this MotoGP Season?!

(Promotional financial compensation welcomed. Carmelo, I'm a good investment!)

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Mutter by Motoshrink

Test chatter

Apical
Site Supporter
10 months 2 weeks ago
Permalink

Howdy Motoshrink 

What's with the Ducati's "it's not chatter it's vibration" problem?

Your E-bike sounds like fun. Light two wheelers always are.

I'm back on the dirt again. My brother dropped off a Husqvarna (the white KTM) enduro 4 stroke this morning. :-) Back to my roots indeed.

Second life? Maybe. Hoping to do some racing when I  retire. Would be my second time around. FFirst on flat track or speedway at my local ciruit.

Andi DiBrino is from your city isn't he Dr 'shrink? He can ride that KTM! Not being parochial are you?

Chased one 790 Duke around Wakefield Park. Could not keep up. Nice machine.  I inherited a bias against parallel twins from my dad. Go A.D!

275 kilometres per hour? No I've never been there. The fastest motorcycle I've ever owned doesn't ggo that fast.

Flow I know. I've experienced that state of mind. Time seems to slow down, everything is in focus. The perception of speed changes with experience in my experience.Yes speed or velocity is a good medicine. All drugs are poison. What matters is the dose & rfrequency. 

 

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Test chatter by Apical

Ape! G'day down under…

Motoshrink
Site Supporter
10 months 2 weeks ago
Permalink

Ape! G'day down under. Someone technically smarter like good old Jinx could chime in about the '24 Ducati issue. I am just glad it has a sorting issue to make things more interesting. Perhaps SO much rear grip is there that the rear is creating a disruptive vibration? Pecco's last race was SO so good, most impressed yeah? I like the kid, but also like that he and spicy Martin have crashed out leaving some points for grabs and diverse podiums. (Martin returned to his less insightful/more excited ways, but with SO many crashes giving him the benefit of a doubt that he genuinely has settled down from a yr ago). Bagnaia is getting a for real battle, and it is a THREE WAY with excellent opponents. One of whom is not yet at his best with his bike, so QUITE eager to see this season!

I'm wondering what is going on with the KTM, speaking of your dirt bike. Didn't you think it was taking a bigger step fwd than it has relative to the other bikes? Brad too? El Pedro had a "human" Sunday in Spain at his home track didn’t he? Just outdone, the level of rider performance was SO so high.

DiBrino is from here, yes. He won Supersport in the old Pacific NW stomping grounds aboard his parallel twin Duke 890R "Super Hooligan" bike, which is cool. Perochial, yes. But he is a great guy and fast as hell on a bike I am interested in and an intriguing class. I haven't heard an update, hoping he is ok, but he crashed out BIG and left in the ambulance not long ago. I feel badly for the racers not on Indians (and this yr joined by Sand's 2nd rulebook darlings Harleys). They have intentionally put the American pigs out in front.

Why didn't your father like parallel twins? Back to the old British bikes being shite in the 70's? At the present they are SURGING in the market and one could hate the mild kit sporting standard R7's et al for displacing our real Supersports. But then you also get bikes like these KTM's that are getting quite cool eh? Keep an eye out for the NEXT Orange RC9 (they just did their 2nd RC8 and it is quite good). The Kramer too. Rippers! Good kit! I have been thoroughly enjoying flogging my lightweight 400cc Kawasaki much more than expected on roads around here. I let friends ride it and they do too. If a Supermoto and a Supersport had a baby perhaps, fun looser riding style. And comfy. Plus ringing everything out of a bike is a joy, right?

Re big speed, if you get a chance to ride one of the many 1000cc 4 cyl bikes I highly recommend it. Not saying it is more fun than a Supersport to carve with, it isn't. But the sheer power on tap is a treat. Roll on wheelies galore in 2nd gear, big long and fast. And then that top speed...not just flow state consciousness, it is out of this world above 170mph ish. Qualitatively different. To find a comparison is difficult unless just analogy. The R1 and CBR1000RR both went there but the Supersports came up short. 

It would be wonderful to hear that you were racing again! Inspiring. 

Motohug friend!

:)

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to I think it's quite common to… by WaveyD1974

Data logging and quantitative analysis of body position

Merlin
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Thanks WaveyD and Shrink. I didn't do a good job of asking the question. There are so many software-based tools for collecting physical data for motion-tracking and analyzing the movement of an individual's body, joint-positioning and velocity, etc. Been common in many sports for some time: swimming, tennis, golf (I bet some of you even use the golf apps.), downhill skiing. Even smart-phone apps, now. The equivalent of data-logging on the bike, but on the rider. Sure, the rider creates their own mental analysis of how their body movement affected a laptime, but every kind of athlete does that and yet these software tools help even Olympic-level athletes up their game. Also different from tools that track things like player position on the field, or the "strobe-effect" systems that can overlay a vehicle's lap-by-lap poistion on track, or compare with a competitor's. That's been around for awhile too.

A cursory look at the market shows something like Dartfish's downhill skiing application might be close to what I'm thinking of.

Dartfish software for skiiing analysis

Sort out the sensors needed on a suit of leathers and seems like teams could add a ton more relevant data to what their current data-logging on the bike is giving them.

basketball analysis

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Data logging and quantitative analysis of body position by Merlin

Apparently this is already in the works

nico
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/motogps-next-tech-revolution-sensors-on-riders/

 

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Apparently this is already in the works by nico

Great article, Nico - Thanks!

Merlin
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Thanks Nico - exactly what I was pondering. Really informative article about this topic from none other than Mat Oxley. And pretty recent, too (this February).

  • Log in or register to post comments

Pre-FranceTainment

Motoshrink
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Pre-FranceTainment

If you are a bit like me you may quite enjoy this 26 min video. Of course, a few ffwd's are your perogative, none here. Start 1min40secs?

Smashtag +Davey Todd, +BSSupersport, +1st ride = race, +Ducati V2 Panigale, +front row view, +NW200/TT prep and kicking arse...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NZxMjqHtH6I&pp=ygUcRGF2ZXkgdG9kZCBkdWNhdGkgc3VwZXJzcG9ydA%3D%3D


Pecco Bagnaia, let us appreciate your brilliant performance Sunday. SO well done, and obvious you are both enjoying and thriving at this point. Gorgeous racing Pecco! And we mind that Marc is coming whilst lighting up the pumping rear (have you EVER seen puffs of smoke coming off a pumping Duc rear under a happy rider?!), and Acosta merely newborn. Don't forget Martin in form! Brilliant.

Heartfelt thought, Bezzechi - isn't he a good salve for missing Marco Simoncelli? What a GREAT human being. And, he's back to being fast as fook. Just behind Pecco/Martin/Marquez is a hotly contested pack. A meat grinder JUST behind the pointy end, which is BRILLIANT. I happened to grab DiGia to be this rider. Or Brad. Or Bastianini. But who is it looking to be at this point in time? Bezz! And please join me in being quite joyful about that eh?
:)

Okay, so Pecco/Bezz/Marc Marquez post race on After The Flag...have you watched this? No? Do!

If nothing else just witness how deeply HAPPY these three riders all are. With rubber on their leathers for Pecco and Marc. With a masterful race run, each of them. Gah!

Adding that Marc currently "Hondacati" rides the Ducati best with the rear a bit worn out. He can pivot the bike more naturally without a fresh rear. For now! He is COMING.

6:35 thru 32:55 of After The Flag I'd term mandatory viewing Mutterpals.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FSDZdkxlgXw&pp=ygUGbW90b2dw
 

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Pre-FranceTainment by Motoshrink

Thank’s ‘Shrink!

Seven4nineR
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Less than a month now until the men of the TT take over from the boys of GP. (where’s that stick poking emoji when you need it?)

The slot-bikes of Motogp are incredible things, riders amazing at hitting their marks…but gimme the shapes of IOM riders/machines for pure “poke the devil in the eye, and I bet I can out-run him” backing yourself. Legends all of them.

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Thank’s ‘Shrink! by Seven4nineR

The King of Shapes

gc700
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

I love MotoGP but when the announcers.say that so and so makes great shapes with his bike I think of Michael Dunlop 2 seconds down to someone (Ian Hutchison) on the final lap of any race at the TT. Bike a few feet in the air at some crazy angle, he's off the side of it while being rediculously close to some traffic furniture or someone's porch. 

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Pre-FranceTainment by Motoshrink

Hey, share as well?

Motoshrink
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

749R! Yeah buddy! Great stuff eh?

Look, did YOU read that? Click on the links? Did you feel something special at Jerez last wknd?

Sincerely, why not join in the moto-warmth of the comments section? You can see that if I am more or less welcome here that the bar is just off the tarmac.

What are YOU noticing? Was it Gas Gas other Fernandez's front tire losing grip and a save while being aggressively passed over the wknd? Amazing momentary camera coverage on the main feed, right?! Brilliant! All the way back there about that.

Don't make me post Spinal Tap videos! David Emmett firmly told me to not call Jorge Lorenzo a twit back in the polite era, and I am sticking to my word.

Q: WILL PEDRO ACOSTA have a "Chupa Chips Gold Helmet" unpressured atmospheric highside launch to injury, or no? WHAT makes you say that?!

749R I well remember what you describe, first seeing the TT whilst racing 10 10ths on circuit courses.

One's synpathetic nervous system wisely determines that it is time to differentiate from there this untenable bastardization of human possibility.

-- God bless the NW200 and Isle Of Man TT --

We are in a quite small brief exception here whilst these impossible Events remain with us. Look, I'm Buddhist progeny of a protestant minister, and retain some ideals that aren't nuts. I think we should not only appreciate the oddly unlikely blessings of those amazing events, but suggest that it is imperative in our lives that we ALSO find our most unique manner of being ourselves in spite of a quite adversarial life situation of a World in historically relevant transition! 

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Hey, share as well? by Motoshrink

Big IOMTT fan here, and for riders who live on their own terms

Merlin
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Aye, aye - the Isle of Man TT is one of the last venues for people who live on their own terms, terms that others classify as insanity. Never had the privilege of actually attending, but media coverage is pretty good these days. Watching and listening to the people around the racers, I get the feeling this is like MotoGP on steroids but with the accessibility of a club-racing weekend.

Quite open to accusations of being too cerebral, here, but "That Near Death Thing" by Rick Broadbent is one of the best, affirming accounts of what goes on in the minds of TT racers. Not a history of the TT, but an extremely engaging crawl around in the brains of the likes of Connor Cummins (after his astonishing crash at the Veranda), Michael Dunlop, Guy Martin, and John McGuinness. It's a few years old - and amazing to think most of these guys are still racing!

Good prep for the heroics and video fireworks to come!

That Near Death Thing - book cover

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Big IOMTT fan here, and for riders who live on their own terms by Merlin

It's pretty crazy

larryt4114
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

I was lucky to get over there one year -- a nephew borrowed a time share and his dad was a senior pilot with Air Canada so it was a seriously cheap holiday -- and was blown away. Sitting on a bank 20 feet from bikes going by at 200 mph is quite a sensation. We were very fortunate in that a local sort of adopted us for the week after meeting him in a pub, and took us around to all his favourite viewing spots. I'd recommend it to anyone who's got the vaguest interest in motorcycle racing. The paddock is so casual it's unreal, just like being at our local track. I actually bumped into Mitsuo Itoh, the only Japanese to win a race there (50 cc, I think 1962 or '63) who I'd met before; he retired as a very senior Suzuki exec. He told me he'd been back every single year since his win to watch the racing. 

 

And the local beers are great, Castletown Bitter in particular to my taste! 

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Big IOMTT fan here, and for riders who live on their own terms by Merlin

Thanks mate!

Seven4nineR
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

I’ve a heap of racer/TT books, often have old VHS (!) TT’s from way way back playing while I’m pottering in the shed (hey, Ducati’s, you have no bloody choice!) so I’m stoked to have such an interesting recommendation.

Funny you mention that Conor Cummins crash. Back in the day I made the effort to go to the cinema and see “TT3D Closer to the Edge”. There weren’t a lot of us there, but the collective intake of breath as we all felt like were in that chopper watching what was surely a dead man flung down that mountain……just incredible he’s come back as fast ever.  As Guy Martin would say “What a boy!”

One thing the TT does so much better than GP’s is convey the sense of speed. I sneak/watch something at work during TT fortnight, and my workmates are convinced it’s sped up, no-one can possibly ride that fast through a stone village….can they? Even just that classic shot firiing down Bray Hill causes involuntary profanity.

The closest I’ve seen in GP’s was Marquez and Dovi side by side one year at Mugello, just great stuff, but that sort of footage is rare….and for the life of me I don’t know why. Surely it should be the norm?

 

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Thanks mate! by Seven4nineR

Purpose-built circuits lack reference points that show speed?

Merlin
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

You're right about the more dramatic visualization of speed around the TT. I think the fact that those stone walls, lines of spectators, and little shops and cottages are only a few feet from the racers makes it much easier to get a real sense of their speed.  

IOMTT

 

IOMTT specttors

There are so few close-in visual reference points like these on a homologated track.

I don't know how many hours/days of the TT broadcast and movies I've watched, and I am still mesmerized by the sight!

  • Log in or register to post comments

Go there, if you can.

motomann
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

The whole scene has changed a bit in the last few years but the spectacle hasn’t and speed has only increased. I went to the Manx and felt it was better in a few important ways. The speed difference is immaterial and even more amazing that a lot of the riders were amateurs with full time jobs. It’s like wandering down to the local residential crossroads, crossing the road, buying a paper and a tea and bacon roll, then wandering back across the road to sit on a wall and read/ eat/drink. About 20 minutes later, after a few cars and bikes drove past, it all goes quiet; a sports bike can be heard and as you look up the 30 mph not especially wide residential road that curves a lone bike speeds towards you and apexes on the crossroads (the wrong side in the uk).

I spontaneously let loose a few expletives, and swivelled left to watch it and him wheelie up the other side of the valley. I am used to ‘Shrinks 170 mph threshold but that was some intro to live TT course racing. I will never forget it and responding to this thread has me grinning at that memory. The videos are one thing and equally unbelievable for the individual moments as well as the sheer stamina needed to do that over 200 miles at an average of around 130 mph on roads as winding as anything you could possibly traverse at anything from 20 to 200 mph. The beer is good too. And unlike the NW200 they haven’t pushed the spectators back behind fences so far from the track that the best viewing experiences are but memories. The TT is it for live experience and jaw dropping video. 

  • Log in or register to post comments

James Hillier

stumo
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

I can't believe this was 7 years ago... 5th gear, OMG!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46KuqaehOHc

  • Log in or register to post comments

Truly Ballascary.

motomann
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Not cruising in 5th either. Respect.

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Truly Ballascary. by motomann

Hutchy interview

dewang
Site Supporter
10 months 2 weeks ago
Permalink

Keeping with the TT theme, an interview with Ian Hutchinson. I love the guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGsVjOej9uE

  • Log in or register to post comments

In reply to Hutchy interview by dewang

Admirable guy

larryt4114
Site Supporter
10 months 2 weeks ago
Permalink

I was there in 2010 when he won five races, unreal. And he was sick as a dog! What he's gone through with leg operations in the past few years rivals anything MM has gone through with his arm. Definitely one tough cookie, and seems to be a really nice guy as well. 

  • Log in or register to post comments

Wowza video

Motoshrink
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

Jaw droppingly good onboard footage of Bagnaia and Co battles Sunday. 7 mins of wowza...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T188fNKIawM

  • Log in or register to post comments

Hail Mary

Seven4nineR
Site Supporter
10 months 3 weeks ago
Permalink

The Japanese factories are in a world of hurt, obviously, but the remedy goes against every fibre of  an engineers body. The golden mantra is always “only ever change one thing at a time”.

To do anything else just confuses the matter: how do you know which of the multiple things you did made the thing better, or worse, or cancelled each other out? That last sounds very much like where they are at, to make wholesale changes to see no effect defies belief….unless the changes are interacting to nullify each other.

But being so far behind (Fabio 29sec slower than 2021, I think?) leaves them little option. They literally need to throw a Hail Mary, as Gigi miraculously did for Ducati back in 2014(?). Even then the evolution of that promising cleansheet design took many seasons to truly challenge for a title.

It’s a tough ask to bypass evolution and embrace revolution.

  • Log in or register to post comments

Donate to the Aspar Team's fund to provide aid to everyone affected by the devastating floods in Valencia.


Find MotoMatters on Bluesky and Mastodon

Support Simon Crafar's Riders for Dogs charity, and help rescued dogs find a better home.

Buy Neil Spalding's essential guide to the technology of MotoGP bikes, MotoGP Technology.

Recent comments

  • Marc has a plan joeR6 3 hours 13 minutes ago
  • No Zarco love ? Matonge 3 hours 39 minutes ago
  • So true motomann 5 hours 12 minutes ago
  • Not falling cause he doesn’t need to find the limit  Gerrycollins 6 hours 41 minutes ago
  • At what age? Apical 7 hours ago

All content copyright of MotoMatters.com unless otherwise stated. MotoGP is a trademark of Dorna Sports s.l. and MotoMatters.com is not associated with it.

Site hosted by