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Austria MotoGP Sunday Round Up: Unwatchable Perfection, Managing Rear Spin And Front Slide, And Making Up For A Poor Start

By David Emmett | Mon, 19/Aug/2024 - 11:27

If you thought Saturday's sprint race at the Austrian GP in Spielberg was a bit of a snoozer, just wait until you see the Sunday GP. Saturday's 14-laps sprint races saw the top ten separated by 16 seconds. The gap from first to tenth in Sunday's GP was 30 seconds. The sprint race podium was covered by 7.5 seconds, on Sunday, it was 7.35 seconds. This is a far cry from the spate of closest ever top 10 and top 15 finishes of just a couple of years ago.

The racing in MotoGP is once again reminiscent of the dark days of the 800cc era, when passing was impossible and your finishing position was pretty much determined by where you qualified. I remember that period very well. Because I had to write about it every Sunday.

There are more parallels with that time. In the 800cc era, there were four riders who were a cut above the rest battling it out, with Casey Stoner, Jorge Lorenzo, and Dani Pedrosa sometimes laying down a pace that was so punishing, riding with such precision and perfection that nobody could follow. (To his credit, Valentino Rossi still tried to make the racing watchable whenever he could, but it was hard up against three riders who were his match in terms of talent.)

At this point in MotoGP history, it is Pecco Bagnaia and Jorge Martin who are stinking up the racing with displays of such sublimely perfect riding that it is mesmerizing to watch for a lap or two. But the race on Sunday was 28 laps, and once Bagnaia got his lead over a second, it was clear he was unstoppable. The race was a foregone conclusion, watched more out of a sense of duty than a sensation of joy.

And yet the strategy behind it is fascinating. Pecco Bagnaia had seen Jorge Martin's pace in warm up on a reheated medium rear tire and had realized the Pramac Ducati rider would be very strong at the end of the race.

Martin ended warm up 21st, as clear an indication as it is possible to have that the position in warm up is pretty much meaningless. But he had started the session on a medium rear that already had 23 laps on it, and did a 1'30.7 on the 28th lap - race distance - of the tire. That is roughly the pace that Bagnaia expected to be doing in the middle of the race, with still some tire left.

That session tipped Martin's hand to Bagnaia, and helped him and his team set out their strategy. They knew what Bagnaia had to do to beat him. "I was quite confident about my pace, but this morning I saw that Jorge with very used tires, cold tires, they rewarmed the tire, he did a very, very good pace in the warmup. So I said, okay, in the last part of the race he will be very strong, for sure. At the moment, I’m always very confident and I’m always saying that Jorge will be there fighting. At the moment we are doing the difference between the rest and I was sure that it was a race between us," Bagnaia told the press conference.

The plan was to get into the lead as quickly as possible and build an advantage in the middle of the race and make it big enough that Martin would not be able to come back at the end. And to do that, Bagnaia's team eased off the traction control, giving the reigning world champion more control in his right wrist, and less from the electronics. They let Bagnaia manage the throttle, and the rear tire.

That played into what is one of Bagnaia's greatest strengths: his patience. As the adrenaline of fear and excitement floods your nervous system, every instinct is to react aggressively and suddenly. But the key to being fast is to wait until precisely the right moment to apply the brakes or open the gas, and do that smoothly and with incredible precision. That requires that you can harness the adrenaline for the hyperawareness it brings, but channel it through an inner calmness to use it to its most devastating effect.

"I was just trying to wait with the throttle until I was finding good traction, because if not, the rear was sliding, was spinning a lot," Bagnaia explained in the press conference. "On the exit of Turn 3 and Turn 10 it was difficult to manage it. I think we worked a lot with the electronics on the weekend, and we did a step back removing a lot of traction control just to have more on my hand. It was easier to manage."

That gave Bagnaia control in the middle of the race. "Today I just had this advantage in terms of pace in the middle part of the race, knowing that in the last part I could have a margin. Pushing like this in the middle means also that in the last part you are without tires. This happened, but having two seconds meant it was difficult for him to recover in the same, or more or less similar situation. It was a good strategy."

The brilliance of both Bagnaia and Martin is how they are able to find this speed when the track layout is working against it. Enea Bastianini, normally a master of saving his tires until the end of the race, could not manage to do the same as his Ducati Lenovo teammate and Pramac Ducati's Martin, despite being on identical machinery. Which is how he ended up finishing third, 7 seconds behind Bagnaia.

"This track is not like the usual track," Bastianini explained. "It’s strange because we have to brake many times and also a lot of braking straight. When you have to do an acceleration, you spin like other riders. You can do nothing to save a bit the tire."

Unless you are Pecco Bagnaia or Jorge Martin, that is. "These two riders are so different, their riding styles are so different," Bastianini said. "Pecco sometimes has an incredible braking point. Sometimes he can brake very late compared to the other riders of Ducati. Jorge is incredible sometimes in the middle of the corner. He has a lot of speed. Sometimes with less angle. It’s strange."

This only goes to underline the point I made at the beginning. Pecco Bagnaia and Jorge Martin are producing some of the most incredible riding we have ever seen on a MotoGP bike. They have pushed each other to stratospheric levels of performance, forcing each other to be incredibly precise and to remain mistake-free for as much as the race as they can. They have to hit the same spot on the track with the same speed, the same lean angle, the same brake pressure every single lap for 110km. They then have to compensate for fuel loads as they drop, brakes and tires as they wear, and physical exhaustion as the race goes on.

Martin and Bagnaia have to keep being so precise because they cannot afford to make a mistake. The slightest slip up will hand the advantage to the other, and likely cost them the race. And the margins are so impossibly tight that they cannot allow the tiniest crack in their performance to appear. Jorge Martin arrived in Austria with a championship lead of 3 points. Pecco Bagnaia leaves with a lead of 5 points. After 11 grand prix, 11 sprint races, and a possible total of 407 points.

Add in the current state of MotoGP, where the ride-height devices and aerodynamics are overloading the front tire, despite Michelin's best efforts to keep up. (And thwarting Michelin's attempt to remedy the problem by moving the goalposts so that the new front Michelin is designing has been made obsolete before it has even been tested.) The bikes are getting out of corners better and arriving at corners faster, needing bigger and better brakes to stop them. And all that energy is going into the front wheel, heating the front tire, and making the pressure much more difficult to manage.

At the hardest braking circuit, this is even more of a problem. And the increasing emphasis on even the smallest details of aerodynamics makes this even worse. Aleix Espargaro complained that he ended up with no front brakes, because the brake discs and pads were reaching temperatures outside their operating temperature.

"Yesterday we were on the limit with free air, but today behind them, apart from the pressure and the temperature of the front tire, the temperature of the carbon was completely over the limit with the biggest discs, we set a new record," the factory Aprilia rider said. The RS-GP is particularly bad in this respect, with a very large front fender playing an important role in channeling air onto the side of the fairing and increasing the ground effect, improving turning. But it also covers up a large part of the disc and blocks cool air from getting onto the brake calipers.

So the brakes are overpowering the front tire, the aerodynamics are overpowering the front tire, and the aero is creating a huge wake which is preventing riders from finding cool air to reduce the temperature in the front tire. The Red Bull Ring then exacerbates that to an enormous extent, with few places to get out of the draft and into free air, and one line through a large section of the circuit.

The riders are left to manage the locking of the front wheel as best they can. For anyone who has ever ridden a motorcycle, locking the front wheel is a nightmare, because it is so difficult to control. Lock the rear and it will slide, but you can still steer the bike. Lock the front, and the tiniest wrong movement will drop you on the floor. Which is why ABS has been compulsory on motorcycles in the EU since 2013. (Though human nature responds by simply shifting the risk to other areas.)

If you've ever locked the front at, say, 30 km/h, you'll know how scary it is. Now imagine doing it at 300 km/h. And doing it lap after lap. MotoGP riders are trying to find ways to manage that locking, smoothly modulating brake pressure just off maximum to allow the tire to roll again and grip, before ramping it up again to find the maximum stopping power. For a rider such as Bagnaia, who can slide the rear to help slow the bike, that takes pressure off the front. But even Bagnaia has to deal with front locking.

The higher the tire temperature, the higher the front pressure, and the more the front is likely to lock. So riders can't follow too closely because the front gets too hot. So they have to leave more room to the rider ahead. Which makes being close enough to attempt a pass on the brakes very difficult. And the combination of ride-height devices (lower center of mass) and improved brakes means braking zones are getting shorter, with less margin to pass.

Then there's the supremacy of the Ducati GP24s. This year's bike is a significant step ahead of the GP23 in terms of performance, which was already the best bike on the grid. Aprilia and KTM have improved to the extent that their bikes are as good as and sometimes better than the GP23, but there is still a gaping chasm to the GP24.

Gigi Dall'Igna and his team have done an incredible job to gain more performance from this year's Ducati. But it has had a terrible effect on the racing, especially as the current state of MotoGP technology places a much greater premium on bike performance than in the past. Engineers have worked incredibly hard to reduce the impact of the most unpredictable part of the performance package (the rider) from the equation as possible. Every gain here is to the detriment of the spectacle, and of the fans.

Fortunately, the riders still make a difference, if less than previously. The GP24 is the best bike on the grid, and so its riders are leading the championship. But Pecco Bagnaia and Jorge Martin are head and shoulders above Enea Bastianini, mainly because of their consistency. And while Franco Morbidelli has made great steps forward in competitiveness, he is still clearly a step behind the leaders. Which is why he will be keeping a GP24 next season, unlike his prospective teammate Fabio Di Giannantonio.

The one rider who can clearly still make a difference is Marc Márquez. The best of the GP23 riders, he has shown he is capable of taking on the GP24s and matching them while on inferior machinery. It may be impossible for most riders to pass in MotoGP, but that does not appear to apply to Marc Márquez. After a horrible start, the Gresini Ducati rider fought his way through from thirteenth to fourth, making passing look almost easy.

Márquez' problems started half an hour before the race was due to start, when his team discovered that the valve on the rim that held the medium front tire he had saved for the race was broken. With no more medium front available, the only option Márquez' team had was to take the front he wanted to use off one wheel rim and onto another.

The problem there is that to move the tire from one wheel to another, they had to take it out of the warmers. And that allowed the front to cool down significantly, without enough time for the warmers to get it completely back up to temperature before the start of the race. So Marc Márquez started the warm up lap on a front tire which he wasn't sure would be warm enough.

And so Márquez started his warm up with a focus on getting as much heat into his front tire as possible. And on the straight, as he returned to his grid position, he concentrated on loading the tire with the brakes, and as a consequence, first engaged and then released his front holeshot device. "On the last straight I braked and I engaged the front device, but then I braked again and disengaged it," he explained.

By that time, he was going too slow to engage his front holeshot device again before he reached his grid slot. The process for engaging it is to arm it by rotating a switch on the handlebars, and then braking hard so that the pin on the front forks slips past the catch which will hold the front forks down. But again, the layout of the Red Bull Ring intervened.

Not so bouncy

The trick to engaging the device in Austria was to brake harder to overcome the stiffer springs needed to cope with the braking forces at the track. "Harder front suspension, so you have to be more smooth, to be more aggressive but smooth when you release brakes," Pecco Bagnaia explained. "So it’s very easy to engage and release in the same moment."

Getting it right is notoriously difficult. "Yesterday before the sprint race I tried to engage three times, because I didn’t engage three times. Today two," Bagnaia said. "It's a scary moment because you know that you don’t have much time." Márquez always engages the front holeshot later, Bagnaia said, which is part of the problem. "He does every time in this position in the grid and I’m scared for him every time. But for me this weekend was more difficult. In Silverstone was much easier because was different." Silverstone is a much more flowing track, and the springs and damping is not set up to be so harsh.

Without the holeshot device, Márquez had wheelie off the line and everyone shot past him, the Spaniard then getting hit by Franco Morbidelli on the way into Turn 1. The Stewards investigated that incident, but rightly concluded that no blame applied to either rider. The blame, if it lies anywhere, is with holeshot devices, and the way they have taken control out of the hands of the riders. Even more so with the data the engineers get from the practice starts at the end of FP1 on Friday afternoon. "You start four tenths slower," Pecco Bagnaia said in the informal chat while waiting for the podium ceremony.

Márquez more than made it up, and once he got past everyone apart from the podium riders, he was faster than anyone else on track, showing he had the pace for the podium, at least. That gave him confidence, and the Marc Márquez who came to talk to us after the race was looking much more satisfied and less frustrated than we expected.

"You know, as I said in Spanish, in Catalunya we finished second and second in the sprint race, but it was one of the worst weekend for us," Márquez told us. "This weekend was one of the best, the feeling with the bike, the speed on the practice, on the warm up, on the qualifying practice. But zero points yesterday and a fourth place today. But I enjoyed a lot the real speed this weekend, and that speed is there."

That speed is all that matters to Marc Márquez. He has no hopes of the title - he sits 83 points behind Bagnaia in fourth place, with Enea Bastianini and third place just 22 points ahead - but he is building for a real shot at the championship in 2025. "I know that this year is a year to build and I'm building. I tried to build that confidence. And this second part of the season we need to keep building and try to be on the podiums, and the victory, if it's not this year, next year it will arrive."

This is why Marc Márquez risked everything, gave up a well-paid contract with Repsol Honda to ride a year-old bike in a satellite team. Marc Márquez loves nothing more than winning, and after the long misery of the injury sustained in 2020, and Honda's slide into irrelevance, he has a plan to get back to winning. And he has the patience to wait for that plan to unfold. 2025 will be another story.

The MotoGP race at the Red Bull Ring may have been a snoozefest, but more worrying than the race was the big drop in attendance. Austria was always one of the better attended GPs - rightly so, the event is genuinely impressive, there is loads of entertainment, and everything is incredibly well organized - but this year, crowds dropped from 93,000 last year to 67,000, a drop of 26,000. This mirrors the drop at Silverstone, where attendance was poor.

Are there obvious reasons for this drop in two races in a row? Perhaps the Olympics happening in Europe took attention away from MotoGP, and more importantly, persuaded race fans to attend the Olympics rather than the races in Silverstone and Spielberg. Maybe the big rise in ticket prices over the past few years at the Red Bull Ring is driving spectators away.

Or maybe it was just the specific circumstances of the summer of 2024. Austria has been lashed by extreme weather all summer, with heavy rain and thunderstorms causing flooding, washing out roads, and even costing people their lives. Perhaps the storms dissuaded people from traveling, with public transport in Vienna being hit by torrential rain and flooding, and roads being closed. If you aren't sure of getting there, and can't be sure of getting back, maybe you choose not to travel at all.

I had first hand experience of just such a storm. Massive storms hit the track on Saturday night, the track opening the grandstands to allow fans to shelter and take cover from the conditions. A couple of days previously, as I rode my motorcycle through the mountains near Garmisch Partenkirchen, a storm struck worse than anything I have experienced. Torrential rain, hail, standing water on the road, the storm arriving in minutes almost without warning. Perhaps a little too much excitement for an old man on a motorcycle. Certainly more excitement than Sunday's Austrian GP.


The Sunday round ups are usually limited to subscribers. To give you a taste of what you are missing, this Sunday round up has been made free for all to read. If you enoyed this, please consider supporting MotoMatters.com. You can help by either taking out a subscription, supporting us on Patreon, by making a donation, or contributing via our GoFundMe page. You can find out more about subscribing to MotoMatters.com here.

11
2024
MotoGP
Spielberg, Austria
Ducati
Enea Bastianini
Francesco Bagnaia
Jorge Martin
Marc Marquez
CormacGP
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Comments

Not as boring as WSB.....

justaremf
7 months ago
Permalink

Great recap David. Given the fanboy status of Motomatters when Toprak is racing, I don't see how the GP race this past weekend matches the yawner that Toprak has made WSB this year. I look fwd to you saying the next WSB race is boring when he pulls off another double. :)

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In reply to Not as boring as WSB..... by justaremf

More than numbers

Seven4nineR
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

If you think WSB is boring going by the numbers you clearly haven’t been watching. From this esteemed publication:

“Toprak Razgatlioglu won by three and a half hundredths of a second as Nicolo Bulega made a run out of the last corner…..”

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In reply to More than numbers by Seven4nineR

If your memory was longer....

justaremf
7 months ago
Permalink

Toprak has won 11 races in a row. Other than the Portugal race, his average win margin was 4.4 seconds going back to Race 2 in Assen back in April.

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In reply to More than numbers by Seven4nineR

When you are paying through…

Andrewdavidlong
Site Supporter
7 months ago
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When you are paying through the nose for a Discovery Plus MotoGP subscription - you expect a decent MotoGP race which Austria wasn't. My expectations aren't as high with WSBK but its much more interesting!

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In reply to More than numbers by Seven4nineR

Toprak never fails to bring…

GSP
Site Supporter
7 months ago
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Toprak never fails to bring some entertainment on track. And this is entertainment. 

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You know you are in the s**t…

spongedaddy
Site Supporter
7 months ago
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You know you are in the s**t when you are praying for rain. Even as a spectator.

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In reply to You know you are in the s**t… by spongedaddy

I agree.

RustyBucketUSA
Site Supporter
7 months ago
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I said exactly the same thing! 🤣 

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There were already rumors in…

wolferl123
Site Supporter
7 months ago
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There were already rumors in the month and weeks before the raceweekend, that ticket sales are plummeting and any kind of ticketcategories were available at any time. I was only on sunday on a camping site visiting friends and from my impression they had no complaints about the weather ( in fact they had literally a creek running through their tents on saturday evening...) but almost everyone was disappointed and annoyed by the prices that were called ( especially beer...). If i understood it right the rental for a campingsite increased on some sites by approx. 40%.

My guess why attendance declined so significantly, 

-firstly due to economic reasons ( most of the people have the personal impression of a major economic setback ...) many fans chose to stay at home,

-secondly there are no local heroes - the KTM/Acosta hype from the beginning of the year didn't grow.

and lastly there are no idols at the moment.

It was impressive to watch that on raceday five minutes before the start Rossi showed up at the (new) chicane right in front of the so-called Red Bull grand stand. Black cap, white shirt, no yellow VR46 gear or whatsoever, but he got a bigger round of applause than the riders!

It was in one way impressive to see it live how Bagnaia and Martin rode 44 laps of perfection over the weekend but in the end it was boring!

But a little glimpse of hope at the end, the little boy chosen to wave the chequered flag at the sprint race, by the name of ...Valentino Mayer had most likely the time of his life, he and his little brother - now guess his name ... right, it's Lorenzo ... what else ;) were invited to the paddock, grabbed lots of autographs and met a guy who introduced himself with "Hi Valentino, i'm Valentino..."

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In reply to There were already rumors in… by wolferl123

Thanks. Appreciate the local…

David Emmett
Site Supporter
7 months ago
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Thanks. Appreciate the local insight. 

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DE, you keep getting better

St. Stephen
Site Supporter
7 months ago
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Your analysis, while it has always been very good over the decade plus I've been following, today made me think, and I learned even more. Thanks.

In particular I reference:

"As the adrenaline of fear and excitement floods your nervous system, every instinct is to react aggressively and suddenly. But the key to being fast is to wait until precisely the right moment to apply the brakes or open the gas, and do that smoothly and with incredible precision. That requires that you can harness the adrenaline for the hyperawareness it brings, but channel it through an inner calmness to use it to its most devastating effect."

Last week I read an interview (NYT) with Nate Silver, who can best be described as a political analyst, a champion poker player, but mostly an odds/data guy. And he said:

"Human beings have tens of thousands of years of evolutionary pressure, which is inclined to respond in a heightened way to moments that are high stakes, that are high stress moments. Your body will know when you’re playing a $100, $200 game where it really matters. You will just know. You’ll experience that stress. Even if you suppress it consciously, it will still affect the way that you’re literally ingesting your five senses. So if your heart rate goes up, that has discernible effects. But actually your body’s providing you with more information. You’re taking in more in these short bursts of time. People who can master that zone — and I use the term zone intentionally because it’s very related to being in the zone, like Michael Jordan used to talk about — learning to master that and relish that is a very powerful skill because you are experiencing physical stress whether you want to or not."

Both your and Silver's commentary describe Pecco's (and Martin's) ability beautifully. Really interesting to me to come across both of you in the same week describing this phenomenon so well.

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I wasn't bored

Square Wave
Site Supporter
7 months ago
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I found the race to be very engaging. I honestly don't understand why you keep saying it was boring. Sure, there were not many passes in the leading group. But there were passes further back, Marquez for example. I was anxious that Pecco or Jorge could bin it at any moment. The Ring is not my favorite track by any stretch, but I liked the race.

I also like the ride height devices and aero. I'd like to see how far the tech can be pushed. There's always Superbikes if you don't want progress. 

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In reply to I wasn't bored by Square Wave

I too found it a good race…

dman904
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

I too found it a good race to watch, though I wish there had been better coverage of some of the battles further back, and not just the leaders and M. Marquez coming through the back. For us older folks the quality of camera work, the replays and on-board footage makes watching the riders’ lean angles, sliding, front and rear wheel aerobatics etc exciting even if there wasn’t a lot of position swapping. But yeah, a closer race between the top riders would be nice. 

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In reply to I wasn't bored by Square Wave

Well said Square Wave

AussieRivermark
7 months ago
Permalink

Totally agree with you and others who have since posted that they enjoyed the race and appreciate being able to watch these motorcycle magicians at work. I like to think that we are the 'silent' majority. 

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In reply to I wasn't bored by Square Wave

Too funny!

Seven4nineR
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

If you thought THAT was “engaging” you would have burst a blood vessel watching Dovi outsmart Marquez at the last corner not so long ago. 
And enough with the snide comments, that’s about the only thing we really don’t want.

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In reply to Too funny! by Seven4nineR

Snide

Square Wave
Site Supporter
6 months 4 weeks ago
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I'm guessing that you found my superbikes comment snide, but I didn't mean it that way.

I meant that Superbikes shoud be similar to production bikes where there is no use for ride height devices or wings.

I don't like the limits on tech that currently exist in MotoGP. I don't support spec tires or ECUs.

And I remember Mark vs Dovi very well. Vale vs Lorenzo at Catalunia, Rossi vs Stoner at Laguna Seca, and Rossi vs Gibernau (I forget where), Rossi vs Biaggi everywhere were also entertaining. I've been following since 1994.

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Recap Betters Race

Lucas Black
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

Thanks for this, David.  The race was a snoozer, but all the insights and details in your write-up has salvaged the weekend in my mind.  So many details to consider!!  So much involved that is hard to have a grasp of in the moment.  Cheers!

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Find another sport

Cagivaboy
7 months ago
Permalink

I just don't get 'fans' that need clashes and overtaking to get their level of interest up. I don't think the broadcast commentary helps here as they have the same attitude.
There is so much going on right down to watching sector times ebb and flow as different setups and skills suit particular parts of a lap. The two main contenders have such different approaches and styles and yet end up milliseconds apart every lap- I feel blessed to be able to study it thanks to the excellent vision. There is a lot to it you just need to appreciate and try to understand it. If not...oh well

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I don't understand why some…

WaveyD1974
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

I don't understand why some people get so irked by a mention of boring. David also writes that the strategy side of events was fascinating. Everybody has their likes, dislikes and opinions Some people like to watch golf, cricket or F1. Good for them, my opinion should not detract in the slightest from their enjoyment. It's a subjective matter. I also thought the MotoGP race was pretty boring. Marc's comeback was nice but it was tainted, for me, by the inevitability of his progress. He might have fallen or tangled with another rider but I always feel it's a bit weird wishing misfortune on a rider. In my opinion, the writting was on the wall after Q2. Martin, Pecco covered by 0.14 and then it's all but 0.6 to Marc and Aleix. Miller, 5th, was 0.8 down which was only 0.3 faster than Binder, 12th, the slowest in Q2.

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In reply to I don't understand why some… by WaveyD1974

Excellent points

UZWEEM
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

I totally agree with you. What I find boring shouldn’t negate what others find fascinating. It’s okay for all of us to perceive things differently. 

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In reply to Excellent points by UZWEEM

Two riders on a different…

WaveyD1974
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

Two riders on a different level, riding the best bike by some margin, in a tight points battle, at a stop and go track where every rider suffered from front locking more than usual. It was never going to be, let me think back to the last late race pass for the lead, Silverstone 2 weeks ago. 

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Dovizioso Yamaha tester

Apical
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

Yamaha has announced that Dovi is now a member of the test team.

Dovizioso is replacing Cal Crutchlow for the time being. Get well soon CC35.

Hopefully for the long term. I recall AD04 had better results than Cal.

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In reply to Dovizioso Yamaha tester by Apical

On the ‘good’ satellite…

Matonge
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

On the ‘good’ satellite Yamaha back in 2012, yes.

But the 2021/2022 spell on the ‘lesser’ Yamaha was an outright disaster. He simply could not get on with it.

Makes me question the value his appearance will really have. I see it only as a replacement, Yamaha will gain nothing from it. (Wish it would, don’t get me wrong, love AD04).

If they actually plan to use him as a regular test rider, I’m again doubting if it will really work. How do you distinguish issues with the bike with issues that the rider himself has with the bike? Then again, that would apply to everyone, no? I’m struggling :-)

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In reply to On the ‘good’ satellite… by Matonge

Lest we forget…

Seven4nineR
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

…Dovi rode the ascendant curve of Ducati. Everyone thought Mir’s championship would be his.

So his knowledge of what is a “good” bike is probably more relevant than Cal’s. I mean who wants to build a Honda in 2024? And like it or not that is Cal’s most recent area of expertise.

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In reply to Lest we forget… by Seven4nineR

I think everyone thought…

WaveyD1974
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7 months ago
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I think everyone thought 2020 was business as usual with some added Fabio. Once Marc bust himself up it was imagined to be an easy win for Fabio. 2019 was a difficult year to judge anything other than, 'you're all slow except for that French guy'.

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In reply to On the ‘good’ satellite… by Matonge

AD04's comments

Riesjart
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6 months 4 weeks ago
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On the Yamaha at the time seem pretty spot on to me. Simply put: FQ20 was asking for more power, AD04 for more traction. FQ20 got his way, and now he is also asking for more traction even at the expense of power....I love FQ20, still by far my favourite racer, but I think he steered the development of the Yamaha in the wrong direction

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While holeshot devices are…

tomaso
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7 months ago
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While holeshot devices are being banned, launch control remains. It removes the opportunity to make a difference or to fluff the start. But like so much in MotoGP, the march of technology achieves nothing more than equivalence, like Cold War nuclear powers. 

BSB has managed to remove so much of what makes racing costly and has achieved the spectacle of great racing between different manufacturers. You only have to look at the madness of the last lap of race 1 at Thruxton this year to see how good it can be. Sport needs to remember that people want to see a show, a spectacle and riders' talent.

The excuse is always that MotoGP is the pinnacle of the sport and technology is the future. I guess more and more modern motorcycles have maps, TC, wheelie control and even easy wheelie modes, so the benefits from racing are there. But riders need the opportunity to make the difference for people to enjoy the spectacle. They also need the opportunity to be human and make mistakes. As you say, engineers have worked hard to remove the chance for margins of error.

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In reply to While holeshot devices are… by tomaso

Ummmm

ehtikhet
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7 months ago
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Comparing Thruxton to redbull ring and correlating the excitement of the racing to material concerns whilst completely ignoring the nature of the two tracks is the falsest of false equivalence.

Thruxton is the closest race track to Philip Island perhaps anywhere in the world. The redbull ring is one of the worst layouts for motorcycle racing imaginable: one line, defined by maximum braking and maximum acceleration from 1st gear, one epic sector where there was space to use bravery and skill to make a difference was neutered in the name of safety, completely ignoring the areas where riders are likely to crash and be stricken, unsighted, on the racing line. 

Shit tracks make for shit races. RBR is probably the shittiest of the shit. They should go to Thruxton instead.

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In reply to Ummmm by ehtikhet

And yet…

Seven4nineR
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7 months ago
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… Red Bull Ring has produced some epic finishes over the years, go figure. The Thruxton reference, as I read it, was more related to the ingredients (or lack of) that make for great racing, with the circuit pretty much irrelevant. 
Realistically, you could pick almost any weekend of BSB and you’d have an epic battle: there’s no arguing with 7 lead changes on the last lap of the strongest domestic series in the World.

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In reply to And yet… by Seven4nineR

That was a different track

ehtikhet
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7 months ago
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Rbr hasn’t produced a good race since 2a/b was built. £10 says it never will again.

My point is great circuits make for great racing, then protagonists willing and able to do anything it takes for the win. I agree that the finely poised calculus that has allowed skill and guile to overcome a material deficiency has tipped too far the wrong way in this era but racetracks and riders are the most important ingredients in good racing. If FB and JM both wanted to have at it, they would. Punishing time trials is the cleanest way to win: it keeps marc out of it for now…
Bsb’s parochial ruleset has it’s own problems, It no longer offers a viable pipeline into world championship racing. When they changed the rules in ‘10: “tRaCtIOn ConTRol iS RUinInG THE rAcInG” imagine if they had changed to the moto2 format instead? ‘BSB’ might have become a top tier feeder class for world championships instead of Ray and Mackenzie pottering around at the back on C tier bikes… There would be scores of GP spec trackbikes available too 😛

Cadwell is coming up this weekend, how many overtakes for the lead does that normally produce on the full blooded superbikes? Big bikes need big corners for riders to get the best out of them. Of course there’s more to it than that I know.

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In reply to That was a different track by ehtikhet

Some people love Cadwell…

Andrewdavidlong
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7 months ago
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Some people love Cadwell especially the Mountain - but I feel its too small for modern BSB bikes. Then there is Knockhill in Scotland - getting too small. Unless bigger tracks are built - you can see why BSB is looking to run rounds in Spain.

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In reply to Ummmm by ehtikhet

Thruxton is like Silverstone…

Andrewdavidlong
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7 months ago
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Thruxton is like Silverstone before Silverstone was messed about with too much. Both are ex-WW2 airfields. Thruxton can only be used for 12 days a years as its heavily restricted. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thruxton_Circuit

 

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Quick thoughts

Motoshrink
Site Supporter
7 months ago
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Just a few basics, 1st: how about an experiment? Empty your awareness, exhale. Question: remember your feelings and regard for the 1st Honda V5 MotoGP bike? An overdog of course, blasting rear tires sideways whilst winning nearly everything. How did you view it? And feel about it? Feel free to scratch your (britches) and remember. Did you love it?

Ok, now contrast this 2024 Ducati that took off Sunday like the only bike on the grid that matters. What is it like for you? Subjectively? The feelings...are you impressed and inspired? Admiration and adoration? 

While dominant, the rear wheel blasting overpowered but still manageable 1st 5 cyl Honda was COOL. Loved it, even while NOT a Honda fan. 

But this 2024 Ducati? Nah. Seems some rulebook and Michelin rear tire/5 yr old front beneficiary, plus Red magic that I equate with not just developing a bike but fenagling one out of the rulebook (exemplary of bad rule choices re ride height devices and aero). 2019 to 2021 Duc seemed ingenious. After? Something else. I don't blame Duc of course, and the bike is impressive. But...disdain may be the best phrase for my subjectivity re the 2024. A bit sad that is as such.

I guess we could do the same contrasting the birth of the 4 stroke era to this current gizmo era. The tech and rulebook, the bikes in general. I remember readers here frequently lamenting the loss of 2 stroke "real race bikes" vs the 4 strokes. Has it ever been thus, and I am now just old? (It's my 54th birthday today, so fair thought). I can re-watch 2017 to 2019 in my rocking chair.


Have to give Miller some credit Sunday, right? 

A.Espargaro and Vinales battle, good yeah? Morbidelli on a FAR better weapon, funky interloper?

Shoot me for it, but might Marc's start device failing be seen as a safety concern? A rider dropping back akin to 1/4 of a stall, is it safe?


Okay - someone besides me has plenty to say. I enjoyed the race! More to see than how much the 2024 Duc gaps the field when expertly wielded. 

If you would like to purchase my "even the field glasses," please reach out including your PayPal account info.

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In reply to Quick thoughts by Motoshrink

I think Ducati have struck…

WaveyD1974
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7 months ago
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I think Ducati have struck lucky with the new rear. They had to work to make that tyre work but now that they have Pecco and Martin are more often than not in a different race. Toprak is in a similar situation for different reasons. Sometimes the bike, tyres, rules, rider and stars align. For how long we cannot know. We've been spoiled rotten over the last however many years. Even when Marc won year after year there were still many winners, many battles and it was glorious. 2019 less so but he was nuts, it looked nuts. It didn't look scientific, it looked primal. Now the sport is a bit different...or at least the races have progressed in way that appear different. Haven't forgotten Jerez. Hopeful for Aragon.

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You give me a “semi”, ‘Shrink

Seven4nineR
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

…as in I semi-agree. (Pun absolutely intended, lol.)

I have no problem with the dominance of a manufacturer, per se. I mean, Yamaha found a way to unpick Honda’s engine-ering brilliance with a bike that attacked circuits in a completely different way: sublime handling. Shades of Suzuki and Rins/Mir in later years. Ducati/Stoner out-Honda’d Honda with an epic engine in a bike that devoured circuits along a line no-one else could follow…but Yamaha/Rossi found if you could just interrupt that one beautiful line they were vulnerable.

But those avenues no longer exist. 

And that’s the shutter coming down on an era of “different”. 

You can’t beat a Ducati with corner speed, ask Aprilia, even with the might of Piaggio behind them. You can’t beat them for hp either….and no-one has anywhere near the same drive grip. 

The only place you can beat Ducati is financially: in the wind tunnel, in engineering devices with no real world applications. It’s literally a game of who is prepared to throw away the most money for the least practical return. 

So riders are increasingly irrelevant. Even the rider who has been head and shoulders above everyone else in recent years, on a 1 year old bike, is better than any other current manufacturer/rider combination, but can’t hold a candle to Pecco/Martin. If the greatest rider of our generation can’t make the difference, who can?

So, as much as I’d like to think we’re in an “NSR/RCV-type era”, with alternate ways of dissecting a race track, I know that is not the case. There is no chance of a Furasawa-san reversing the firing order on the M1 then handing it over to a generational talent to do the rest. The development funnel has narrowed, those opportunities don’t exist.

So what’s left?  Cubic dollars and everyone trying to build a better Ducati than Ducati. 

Any racing is better then no racing but that’s a long way from good racing….but that’s just me. Some folks like the time trial format of late, I guess it’s up to Liberty Media as to what they see is marketable.


 

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In reply to You give me a “semi”, ‘Shrink by Seven4nineR

^ THAT*****Really well…

Motoshrink
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

^ THAT

*****

Really well said 749R, thanks. Appreciate shared perspective rather than alone by the tv.

v Rustybucket, did you see pre race the two wheel toting Gresini sprinters blast by Marc in the hall as he entered the garage? Startling.

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In reply to ^ THAT*****Really well… by Motoshrink

Yes, I immediately wondered...

RustyBucketUSA
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

... what that was about. Since the one guy was carrying a wheel, I figured we'd hear (or read) something about a front wheel issue. But I hadn't imagined that!

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Am I the only one...

RustyBucketUSA
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

... wondering: how often does a wheel valve get broken in MotoGP?

Given the number of occurrences for these types of "situations", I don't believe Gresini have suddenly become bad at what they do. I've started to wonder what else is going on...🤔

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In reply to Am I the only one... by RustyBucketUSA

"Technical problem"

David Emmett
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

There were at least two other riders who suffered a "technical problem" at Spielberg.  Acosta was furious but wouldn't tell us what the issue was. Marini also wouldn't say what his issue was, but he retired. There is at least one issue a week on the grid. It's just that Marquez' issue was so obvious they had to own up.

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I enjoy…

Rusty Trumpet
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

…just seeing these bikes on the track being ridden to the max by the world’s best riders. MM carving through the field and the battles for 4th to 6th were also entertaining. JM43 was giving his all. Pecco’s carefully thought out race strategy also shows the level of planning that is now required to win.

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Boring or Not? a dichotomy of opinion here...

tony g
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

This divergence of opinion has become more and more prevalent amongst the mutterers over the last year or so. I have tried to take on some of the positive views of the group that is ok about the races that are less filled with overtaking and incidents - for example CTK and others here - and I think there is a large grain of truth to suggest that some races are entertaining on different grounds. And sitting back and complaining about processions, aero and shapeshifters and tyres is not the most entertaining thing really is it? That said I think that the risk is we verge too far in what we might call the Formula 1 direction and I hope we can agree that is a disaster? I worry that falling crowds are symptomatic of some complacency in the fan base, (though the advent of the late stage capitalism induced cost of living crisis might be a factor in that too.) And as others say - it is hard to blame Ducati for producing by far the best bike on the grid.  Somewhere here - more frequent adjustment to the design rules perhaps, there might be a better compromise which rewards innovation and excellence but doesn't result in apparently complete and long term domination. So respect to all viewpoints from me, and let's hope the next round has something for everyone.

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In reply to Boring or Not? a dichotomy of opinion here... by tony g

Fewer specators?

larryt4114
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7 months ago
Permalink

I imagine a lot of it's just money, from what other posters have said. 

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Style- If Marc M is the Schwantz of his day, then Pecco is...

kdwaverley@gmail.com
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

Eddie Lawson in his day?
Bagnia and Lawson- both ride/rode so smooth, no wasted energy on antics - so they actually appear nearly 'slow' in comparison to their competitors - but are actually wickedly fast- thinking of Eddie in 89 on the ill mannered Honda. Pecco today. 

Boring or not, masterclass. 

 

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In reply to Style- If Marc M is the Schwantz of his day, then Pecco is... by kdwaverley@gmail.com

Lorenzo appeared slow to me…

Jeff Lebowski
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7 months ago
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Lorenzo appeared slow to me as well.  His transitions were seamless.

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In reply to Lorenzo appeared slow to me… by Jeff Lebowski

Pecco reminds me of Lorenzo…

WaveyD1974
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

Pecco reminds me of Lorenzo a lot. Once in their 'zone' it's just lap after lap of perfection. When they throw up the lap times during the race it's a tenth here a tenth there but not much else. They also both have inexplicable disasters. Pecco crashes, Lorenzo would become mediocre for an afternoon.

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In reply to Lorenzo appeared slow to me… by Jeff Lebowski

Soft touch, fast laps

LAH
6 months 4 weeks ago
Permalink

I recall Lorenzo, when he was at his fastest, gripping the exterior bar with only two fingers...

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In reply to Style- If Marc M is the Schwantz of his day, then Pecco is... by kdwaverley@gmail.com

I agree with the Lawson comparison....

oldholla
Site Supporter
7 months ago
Permalink

Not just a smoother riding style, they used to call him "Steady Eddie", he was always there or there-abouts, even on bad days. On his good days he would disappear at the front. The other thing that compares Pecco with Lawson was that his (Lawson's) first year wasn't earth shattering, I think he started in '83? He was well overshadowed by the Spencer / Roberts battle, I do remember Barry Sheene describing Lawson as "embarrassingly slow" when he first arrived. However, once he got up to speed he was a stand out. I started watching the 500's in '86 - '87 as Gardner's accent increased the coverage in Aus and my older brother was right into the racing scene and so encouraged me to watch and Lawson was the man to beat. While the blow up with Agostini led to Lawson swapping to a sort of of semi-factory, semi-independant Honda and winning, Kanemoto couldn't keep that team running and Lawson ended up on the Cagiva. If he been able to stay at Yamaha he may have won more than 4 titles, against some of all time great riders in Spencer / Schwantz, Gardener.

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In reply to I agree with the Lawson comparison.... by oldholla

Lawson left Honda for Yamaha…

WaveyD1974
Site Supporter
6 months 4 weeks ago
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Lawson left Honda for Yamaha, Roberts Yamaha, in the year that Rainey took his first title on that bike. He busted both his ankles up in the first two races and that was his year gone. Rainey was hitting peak form etc. I can't remember why he went to Cagiva but doubt he would have won many more in Roberts Yamaha Rainey team. 

Lawson an absolute favorite of mine. Besides his riding, I don't know why but I think he's hilarious. Still is.

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Motomatters

eastbowl
7 months ago
Permalink

Sorry, this is not a post about the race, but about this race description, and this site generally.

I haven't checked-in on this site in many years.  I can't remember why, really, but I guess it seemed like the content quality, and quantity to some extent, decreased, and I found it less interesting.   I first started reading this site in 2006 and it was far and away the best MotoGP site on the net.  I think the author was transitioning into a different role or something...

Anyway, I check-in today and read this entry and am immediately transported back to the early days.... absolutely amazing commentary and insight about this weekend's race.  Great photos too.   The race was boring, but this article was super interesting!  I can't wait to go back and read all the prior entries for this year.  

If only motomatters calendars came back (maybe they did... I'll have to go look).

:) 

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Duc drop Aldeguer?

Motoshrink
Site Supporter
6 months 4 weeks ago
Permalink

Rumor, Ducati may drop Aldeguer. It would cost them £300,000 to do so. 

Thoughts? I think I would.

P.S. found Cloverleaf! (Still no JINX). He has been immersed in BSB and said hello (email).

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My thoughts too…

Rusty Trumpet
Site Supporter
6 months 4 weeks ago
Permalink

…his performance this year must be giving Ducati second thoughts after their FOMO grab for him last year.

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Thoughts from a distance

Lilyvani
6 months 4 weeks ago
Permalink

Been watching the bikes for a good thirty years, hardly missed a race, and there have been ‘boring’ races in every season, depending on how you see it and, often, who you are a fan of. I thought it was fine, worth watching just to see if Martin could take Bagnaia, and in any case I got my overtaking fix from a fantastic Moto3 race.

For me, really boring would be if Bagnaia pulled a 10 second lead, as it’s then just a case of whether he crashes or breaks down, both of which are unlikely with that kind of gap. And while  many of us are thinking that next year could be the best for ages, I think there’s a fair risk it could be pretty gappy at the front. One thins for sure, I don’t see Martin competing for a title next year, not on that new ride.

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